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Good question Andrew. Now for the answer. Nothing because that is all we can do under the current rules as I understand them.

Dave

The position is reviewed by the NCC, he is appointed for 2 year terms, and by the NCC at its AGM.

Paraphrasing the handbook (because you can't quote from the handbook without permission) the position is viewed as the mediator for the sport and his advice and authority should be above reproach - something like Oz Rod God!

So for anything to happen, really, you must be prepared with a nominee replacement.

And, Dave, if you're reading this (which I doubt!), I truly hope you are getting better; but isn't it time to step aside?

pvcerod wrote:Hi Men ...now don't get me wrong, I like all cars....now bear with me.....don't all Pre 76 Aussie Cars have their own individual Nationals, I'm talking each Model & I would imagine there would be say 300 plus Cars in each model that would turn up at each of their own Nationals, apart from the obvious no Hot Rod or Custom would be aloud to Enter in any of those Nationals, but you want to be accepted into the Street Rod Nationals......now let me put it to you this way, lets say you are accepted & every one of those 300 plus in each Model decide to Enter.....please tell me where in Australia is there a Venue big enough to hold 1200 plus Rods & Customs, 5000 plus Holdens, same in Fords & probably the same in Chryslers, so there is over 16000 cars so far, & that's without the Datsuns, Toyotas & lets not forget the Muscle Cars like your Mustangs & Camaro's.....you are probably looking at 20,000 Cars.....Accommodation!! well that would be 3 fold.....I don't think that is Racist, but I do think it would be unworkable & perhaps that is why they are reluctant to open the Classifications up.....just a thought, not trying to be smart

Seriously? Its attitudes like this that put the fear of chassisless cars taking over out to the masses... Have you ever attended a one make nationals? I have and surpisingly they are happy to set aside an area for other special interest vehicles who come down to have a look. Entrant wise they're lucky to come close to a max of 300 but reality is more like an averag e of 150. As it is now the nationals gets over run by mustangs/camaros/50's and 60's chevs which are nothing but street machines. The percieved fear of being over run is far from a reality. But then again blinkers seem to be on with the large amount of late 50's upto the magical pre 65 full chassied cutoff that are nothing more than stockers with mag wheels fitted. Why don't they get told to bugger off and attend their own nationals? To me they are far more street machine based than an aussie based mild custom (for those that don't need a rule book to know what passes as one ).

Chopped is a good example of where the ASRF is loosing a large potential of young members who are all Hot rod/custom based people who don't care what its based on so long as they are having fun....

Think he tried to at the last AGM, or was it the one before?, but no one put their hand up to do the job.

Should be Pre 49 only, I'd vote for that!

pvcerod wrote:.please tell me where in Australia is there a Venue big enough to hold 1200 plus Rods & Customs, 5000 plus Holdens, same in Fords & probably the same in Chryslers, so there is over 16000 cars so far,

Chryslers on the Murray is the largest Chrysler show in the southern hemisphere, and this year there were 712 entrants, and probably a third as many in the carpark, not entered.
Not a chance of the figures you have estimated.

Blokes, this is starting to go WAY off-topic!!

Can we get back on track?

This thread should only be about the handbook - and it's being put up so members of the ASRF who have never ever received a copy, can view the rules of the Federation!

I think that FCCOOL has hit the nail right on the head.
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FCCOOL wrote:. i think you would just drop the custom classic class all together, it just seems like a add on to let in non custom cars. if the guys with american cars want there car classed as a custom then they can just customise it.
,

Using these two as examples.
If this Chev Wagon is allowed in.

Then this Falcon Wagon should be allowed in also.

And if the Falcon is not acceptable then neither should the Chev be.
They are both nice cars. But the bottom line is that we grew up with Falcons not Chevs & yet what we grew up with is unacceptable while an import is.
Ken.

Re the wagons the top car has a chassis, the bottom car does not. To be accepted it must have a chassis so the bottom one misses out because that is what the handbook says! To be accepted the bottom car would not a lot more modifications to achieve the necessary points (130) to take it into Mild Custom class, where a chassis is not a requirement. But that is a whole other argument which has been discussed here many times over! Can we keep this thread about the handbook itself rather than arguing the rules within it. For the record we never had 32-36 3 window Ford coupes, 39-48 Ford coupes, 36-39 Chev coupes or lots of other now popular bodies either! There have been U.S imports for a very long time and that will likely continue. The fact they are accepted under the rules are part of the reason for their popularity, but that is one of the byproducts of the rules within the handbook, but again that is a whole other subject!

32coupe wrote:I asked at the last ACT DC meeting about the current standing of the rulebook.
I was told it is currently with the cheif national steward.
But, it has been with him for a very very long time.
I also asked when will he be ready to release it, you won't like the answer to that one.
So what are we supposed to do now?
How the hell are we supposed to even know what the current rules are when we don't have access to a current rulebook?
Where is it?
And when can I get hold of it?

How long do we have to wait for someone to do the job they have volunteered for? Or is it time to hand the job over to someone who might actually be able to deliver a result?

I remember when the web site was not being updated at the rate some members liked and the web masters were given a vote of no confidence and sacked.

What do you think we should do with the cheif national steward?

I believe the no confidence vote on the webmaster / poorly handled and had we as members been asked I would not have supported it

Like wise we don't know the full story of the chief national steward

There may well be a very reasonable explanation, rather than repeat the same mistake I think a please explain is more inorder than a vote of no confidence

That's just my 2c

324dor wrote:I think that FCCOOL has hit the nail right on the head.
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FCCOOL wrote:. i think you would just drop the custom classic class all together, it just seems like a add on to let in non custom cars. if the guys with american cars want there car classed as a custom then they can just customise it.

your pics describe what i mean, I think this is partially on topic since it is about the rules listed in the handbook.

Mild could replace classic, Semi could replace mild at 130 points, mild could be around 60 points giving our own and american cars a fair classification and all cars would have to be in a custom style to get in as a custom, maybe a few new additions to the list of points and major stuff like sectioning could earn 100 points and drop the air bag and tubs points. I know its near impossible for a change, i suppose we have about a 25% chance next time the chance comes up.
if that chevy wagon can get in as a custom i think any car with a headlight or tail light change or just a frenched ariel should instanly be a custom.
The way it is at the moment it still doesnt seem worth taking the car to stuff like the nationals when there are only a couple of other cars in my class, if the rules changed there might be alot of custom cars pop out of the woodworks, just think currently if your car was sectioned with canted quad headlights and roll pans it could look radical but still wouldnt make enough points for mild. I think it's worth whatever it takes to preserve our own rod & custom history, we should stop forgeting our own rod & custom history and stop trying to be american, we also need to remember what a custom is, would a restored mid 40's car be a hotrod just becuase radial tyres or seatbelts were fitted? I think its pretty sad that the decision on important topics like this are left to such few people when asrf is made of such a big number of members but i guess thats just the way it has to be.

I disagree with Dave, I think this kind of discussion about the content is exactly what is needed in this thread

For the record, the handbook has had a bunch of changes done since it was originally written, including the deletion of a huge amount of content sometime in the 90's

The current rewrite was given too a committee of three, the WA director, the CNS and the ACT Chief steward

The rewrite was done by taking the current paper copy, a list of known changes and a pile of old paper copies of old handbooks from the 70's so we could resurrect some of the content from the original versions, as we think it was needed after all

The rewrite has gone pear shaped because of the three guys on the sub committee, one retired from the SD role, one has had serious medical issues, and the third has retired and is doing the grey nomad thing
Based on the discussion at the ACT DC, our SD has put it on the agenda for the January NCC phone hookup

Now for the custom categories......

A lot of what FCCOOL said in his posts here makes sense, and I agree with much of it

There are however a couple of things he has said about the points I feel the need to correct
The first is that the points for any modification in the list is the MAXIMUM. The judge allocates a score upto that maximum based on the level of effort and workmanship, so a seat swap would need to be pretty cool to get 6 points, like a thunderbird wrap around seat in the back
The second one is he has mentioned section not getting any points. If you re-read radical custom it says a shorten or stretch, a section or a chop all get 120 points. So a sectioned car only needs another 10 points for mild custom and 60 for radical mild custom. In either case, it's chassiness is not a consideration.....that is ONLY for classic class

I'lll also address the "chev with mags" comments too
The ASRF groups cars in two overall groups of "rods" and "customs" ...............simple translation is "pre-49" and "pre-65"
So the "custom classic" class is a class for classic vehicles in the pre-65 grouping.
The chassis clause was added to that class in the 80's as the members WANTED to exclude aussie cars
So the first thing to understand is we didn't "accidentally" include fairly standard yanky cars and exclude aussie cars...... we did it deliberately
The reason dates back to beyond my involvement, but I have heard it was done because we wanted to keep the indoor show type events full of US based iron, and exclude aussie cars, because the punters were there to see US iron, not the stuff they could see at the supermarket car park
REMEMBER..... the points score was created as a tool to categorise vehicles at indoor shows........ it was never intended to be used to exclude cars from rod runs, or as some sort of membership hurdle

OK.....now too tackle the aussie custom thing

The problem we have had the last few years is NOT getting support to change the rules. I believe we have had the numbers for at least five years

The problem has been drafting a proposal that the supporters can agree on

There have been three attempts, each proposing a different solution

1. Remove the word chassis words from the custom classic definition
2. Add a new class "Custom aussie classic"
3. reduce the point score for mild custom to 80

These three proposals all failed, not because there weren't enough votes, but because the supporters were fighting amongst themselves and trying to rewrite the proposal up to the 11th hour

ALL that is needed is a clear, distinct proposal that the supporters will ALL support

So read the handbook and suggest specific changes ....... not just vague ideas

FCCOOL tried to in his last post, but I think his ideas still needs work

HINT ........ you won't win any votes by trying to remove the chassied classics


HOPE THAT ALL HELPS, AS I AM TRYING TO BE CONSTRUCTIVE, NOT SINK ANYONE'S FAVOURITE BOAT

A Custom ought be any modified car (or other vehicle) that in unmodified form would qualify for Club Rego in it's home state.

Is that simple enough for you Mark?

echnidna wrote:A Custom ought be any modified car (or other vehicle) that in unmodified form would qualify for Club Rego in it's home state.

Is that simple enough for you Mark?

We have 7500 members who all have an opinion on what a custom "ought" to be

The handbook should reflect a convergence of what a MAJORITY of those opinions

I don't even understand your opinion........ club rego is a concession granted to a club. What cars qualify, modified or unmodified, is a matter for the club
I have no understanding why you think our definition of a custom should be linked to other clubs definition of eligability for club rego

I do know the members of the ASRF are never going to accept a definition of custom that includes "any modified car"