46 Ford Build Fails Brke Plate Test With High Pedal Pressure

[Sedandelivery]

Bloke charged me $50 to fail the vehicle......the engineer wants a full test which involves disconnecting the front and rear and testing them individually as I understand it.....testing mechanic said the full test takes most of the day to do......I don't know what the final charge will be....I expected them to be a bit more proactive but all I got was ''It doesn't pass. bring it back when it will''.......not many facilities around here to get it done so I'm at the mercy of very few operators and I don't know what the rules are so I can't test it before I submit it.....

[Sedandelivery]

The $500 is the towing fee to get it there and back because the testing station is about 56k away from where the vehicle is kept.

[Harv]

When I registered my EK wagon, I drove it to the engineers (twice) for testing. I put insurance on it, though both Shannon’s and the RMS believed it was covered for the journeys. Might pay to give your insurer and the RMS a call, could save you the $500 towing fee.

Cheers,
Harv

[Jacksbits]

Have a read of this.

https://www.nsw.gov.au/topics/vehicle-r ... es/driving

When you can drive unregistered, the other thing in NSW is you get a pink slip to say the car is OK to drive, then buy a permit to allow you to drive to your destination and back.

[Chrisso]

Bloke charged me $50 to fail the vehicle......the engineer wants a full test which involves disconnecting the front and rear and testing them individually as I understand it.....testing mechanic said the full test takes most of the day to do......I don't know what the final charge will be....I expected them to be a bit more proactive but all I got was ''It doesn't pass. bring it back when it will''.......not many facilities around here to get it done so I'm at the mercy of very few operators and I don't know what the rules are so I can't test it before I submit it.....

Who's the engineer?

[Harv]

Have a read of this.

https://www.nsw.gov.au/topics/vehicle-r ... es/driving

When you can drive unregistered, the other thing in NSW is you get a pink slip to say the car is OK to drive, then buy a permit to allow you to drive to your destination and back.

That’s the rules I used too. I was driving “ to the nearest convenient authorised inspection stationlaunch to determine whether the vehicle complies with the applicable vehicle standards”, and hence did not need a pink slip or permit.

Same deal when I went to the weighbridge.

Cheers,
Harv

[Sedandelivery]

Thanks for all the advice......today the vehicle is going to my local Authorised Inspection Station to see if it's in a fit condition to drive.....I've called Service NSW and got the ''Vehicle Suitable for Use Declaration'' and the ''Application for Unregistered Vehicle Permit''....after this mornings ''fit for use'' inspection I'll make another appointment with the brake testing station and put the process in motion again.....this time without paying $500 towing fee.....I also cleared it with Shannons as it's already insured with them under ''laid up'' terms so it's a simple task to gain insurance for the move......I was asked who the engineer is....I don't know that identifying him serves any purpose and I don't want to draw the crabs so I'll keep that to myself......again, thanks for the advice

[Sedandelivery]

OK, so the ''fit for purpose'' inspection went alright.....pedal pressure was 475N whereas the maximum in NSW is 885N......the inspector didn't like the brake pedal position but said the vehicle complied with a normal rego inspection test with no issues and that he quite liked it. I may try and change the pedal position but I don't want to increase the required pressure but I suppose I have a bit to play with!

[chop_shop]

Hi thats good news, hopefully the next inspection also goes OK
i'm building a 46 myself, got any pics of your brake pedal setup ?
Thanks
Warren

[Sedandelivery]

My pedal set up was lifted in it's entirety from an NF Fairlane and it fitted under the 46 dash like it was made for it. So my pedals, there's only the brake, are suspended and not through the floor anymore. When I settle on the final arrangements for I'll get some pics for you.

[Gojeep]

Great you got the pressure down more than you needed.
What did he mean by position? Too high up?

[Greg N Smith]

Warning - Brakes (and Steering) are Very Important and I'm called Schultz (from Hogan's Heroes) - I know nothing !

A look on the internet and it appears that -

Jag XJ S1 Front Calipers have 1 x 57mm and 2 x 40mm Pistons - Total Area 7.85 square inches per side - Does yours have 3 Pistons ?

NF Fairlane Front Calipers have 1 x 60.3mm Piston - Total Area 4.43 square inches per side -

Your Jag XJ S1 has 1.77 times more front piston area per side than the NF Fairlane

The real difference is in the total area of all front pistons - a large Difference which I expect would change braking pressures and front to rear brake balance.

Jag XJ S1 Rear Calipers have 2 x 43mm Pistons - Total Area 4.50 square inches per side

NF Fairlane Rear Calipers have 1 x 40.4mm Piston (from Falcon AU size) - Total Area 1.99 square inches per side

Jag XJ S1 Master Cylinder has 15/16" (23.81mm) Bore - Total Area 0.69 square inches per side

NF Fairlane Master Cylinder has 1 x 15/16" (23.81mm) Bore - Area 0.69 square inches AND 1 x 1 1/4" (31.75mm) Bore - Area 1.23 square inches

Some big differences there ... I don't know whether that combination is suitable.

In a safe area with plenty of run-off I would check that you can lock all wheels from moderate speed with someone watching from a safe distance without being an "on-off" switch

In an area with plenty of run-off on loose gravel or wet surface what happens when you brake from moderate speed with a bit of turn - do you lock the fronts and plough straight ahead or do you lock the rears and spin out ?

Please check the booster and all measurements and calculations and let us know how you go.

[Sedandelivery]

To answer Gojeep....yes, pedal to high in relationship to the accelerator pedal.

To Greg N Smith....all you say about piston areas is correct and I'm aware of all that......we have done lock up tests from about 30kph and it does lock up the fronts the rears I don't know but then the NF master cylinder does have a proportioning valve incorporated into it.....I'll do what you say with an observer watching and we'll see what the results are......more to come on this

[FRANK BASILE]

To answer Gojeep....yes, pedal to high in relationship to the accelerator pedal.

To Greg N Smith....all you say about piston areas is correct and I'm aware of all that......we have done lock up tests from about 30kph and it does lock up the fronts the rears I don't know but then the NF master cylinder does have a proportioning valve incorporated into it.....I'll do what you say with an observer watching and we'll see what the results are......more to come on this

What is deemed "too high" in relationship to the brake/ acc pedals ?. Is there an acceptable difference spec? . Curious for my set up . One comment regarding the master cyl inbuilt prop valve. These do have varying "crack points" . I note this from Commodore master cyls I have seen and notes in the factory service manuals ,and have a stamping on the end face of the barrel. It appears that these are pre set for vehicle application. If your vehicle has different weight distribution and even different hydraulics [bore sizes etc] than the donor , then the prop valve most likely will not function as per OEM. Best bet is an adjustable prop valve for fine tuning after you get stuff like wheel cylinder sizes pretty close beforehand. Interesting on the brake tests. I was once watching one of those "Discovery" Channel motoring shows "Wheeler Dealers" . UK based. For those unfamiliar, they buy a vehicle , do it up and flip it. This show did have on more than one occasion vehicles being brake tested at an "MOT" testing station [must be their RWC regime]. One was a Cobra replica that was made compliant for rego ,the other from memory was a drum braked Dodge Charger they imported. The vehicles were on a roller set up. The computer screen/printout gave the front rear balance as well as individual wheel efficiency.

[Sedandelivery]

I can't comment on ''what's to high'' in difference between gas and brake pedals....currently I have four inches.....my 53 Lincoln has 2.5 inches....my Y Block Fords 3 inches....my daily driver Camry and BA Falcon have 1.5 inches......
I did the lock up tests on a sealed road and it won't lock the rear wheels, it will the front but in my own opinion the pedal pressure is probably to high to get it to do that. I read a bit about the brake test proceedure and they quote maximum pedal pressure of 500N for some test, it's quite an involved proceedure which I don't really understand.
On a gravel road it locks all wheels but you really have to stand on the pedal to lock those rear wheels.
I did find a body rattle that was annoying me while doing all this so that's some good come out of it.